The world's largest green hydrogen project, which generates hydrogen from solar and wind renewables without emitting carbon dioxide, produced its first batch of "green hydrogen" on Thursday in Ordos, Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region in north China.
  • u_tamtam@programming.devEnglish
    0·
    1 year ago

    Let’s see, we have a post about China and then a ton of passive-agressive attacks in the comments, lots of bad faith and unsubstantiated arguments, a laughable two-sided view of the world, and a complete inability to form articulated responses using facts and logic? I think I’ve seen this before … oh, right, of course this is from https://lemmy.ml/u/yogthos with some help from https://lemmy.ml/u/gary_host_laptop

      • ninjan@lemmy.mildgrim.comEnglish
        0·
        1 year ago

        Or there is a middle ground where you’ll actually get a nuanced take?

        I’m mostly curious about what they’re going to do with the hydrogen. Fuel cells? No hydrogen tech I know off has really proven scalable, reliable and cost effective. And while hydrogen generation was part of the issue it wasn’t the biggest one. I’m also keen to understand if they use fresh water or salt water. The latter then there is potential for a energy neutral or positive even desalination process which would be massive for large swaths of Africa.

          • ninjan@lemmy.mildgrim.comEnglish
            0·
            1 year ago

            They don’t have many buses like that yet and buses are always near population centers where using food waste to make biogas is simply much better in almost every way.

            As for storing excess energy sure if we’re talking solar generation but they use a lot of hydrogen too for this project and in that case pumping water up to the dam is a much easier and probably more efficient than generating hydrogen and either using it to run an engine or store in fuel cells. Fuel cells aren’t all that efficient. Overall a lot of money spent that will not at all pay for itself for that use case.

            I really struggle with why they’ve gone so heavily into generating hydrogen when there is a big lack of viable use cases. Though they’re far from alone in overestimating hydrogen, BMW and Toyota both invested heavily in fuel cell research (and BMW experimented with direct hydrogen use) and neither came out the other end a winner.

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
              01·
              1 year ago

              China is pursuing lots of different energy alternatives to fossil fuels. That’s the correct approach in my opinion. We don’t know what particular approach or combination of thereof will be most efficient in the long term, the only way to find out is to try different things and see where you get. Thinking of it purely in terms of profits is a bit myopic.

              • redtea@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
                0·
                1 year ago

                You keep thinking about the long term but have you considered that these brand new technologies aren’t widely implemented yet? I bet you would think that it’s a good idea to get a job working with computers but in the 1970s there weren’t many about. If you need some help to work all this out, I can tell you a story about this guy called Robert Wayne or something.

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
                  01·
                  1 year ago

                  This is a great example of how real progress happens outside capitalist relations. Developing something genuinely new takes a lot of false starts, and it’s hard to predict when it’s going to become profitable. No capitalist wants to invest money into an idea indefinitely without knowing whether they’re going to get a return on it. This can only be done at state level when technological advancement is pursued outside the profit motive.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
          01·
          1 year ago

          No, I don’t work at state media, and it’s pretty weird to assume that anybody who sees China favorably must work at Chinese state media to be honest.

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
              01·
              1 year ago

              Wow, you should really hook me up with that job. Didn’t know people got paid to post on Lemmy, seems like I’m missing out.

              • AfricanExpansionist@lemmy.mlEnglish
                0·
                1 year ago

                I know you’re being sarcastic, but I’m not. My friend posted on Twitter and Reddit, among other sites. Go to the CD website and apply. You can also apply at CGTN. Why do Xi’s PR work for free?

                Not everyone who works there is a true believer but a few are and they get to advance over time.

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
                  01·
                  1 year ago

                  I love how you’re just doing a low key smear on me here, and you probably think you’re being really clever in the process. It’s kind of adorable really.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
          01·
          1 year ago

          Calling whataboutism is a logical fallacy used to justify having different standards for yourself and your adversaries. Anybody using whataboutism in place of an actual can be safely dismissed as a troll. Meanwhile, western media is certainly no less biased than CGTN and has been caught lying about China repeatedly.

          • Ronon Dex@mlem.a-smol-cat.frEnglish
            0·
            1 year ago

            Calling whataboutism is a logical fallacy used to justify having different standards for yourself and your adversaries. Anybody using whataboutism in place of an actual can be safely dismissed as a troll. Meanwhile, western media is certainly no less biased than CGTN and has been caught lying about China repeatedly.

            What are you on? Whataboutism is not a logical fallacy. We are talking about the bias of CGTN, and you say “what about western media?” Yeah western media are also biased, but it doesn’t take away the fact that CGTN is a heavily biased media outlet, highly biased towards positive chinese news. I never mentioned any western media or said they were superior, but to avoid talking about this difficult topic, you change the narrative. Did I mention anything about western media? No! Because that’s not the topic.

            Whataboutism is not a logical fallacy. Far from it. Whataboutism has been heavily documented as a propaganda technique by many sociologists and rhetoric scientists:

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
              01·
              1 year ago

              The actual propaganda technique is calling whataboutism when confronted with the fact that you’re being a hypocrite. It’s a well known technique used to deflect any criticism of the US regime.

              The fallacy of screeching whataboutism is in the use of a double standard for oneself and ones adversaries. If you screech that CGTN has bias, while similar level of bias exists in western media then what exactly is the point you’re making.

              In fact, simply screeching that CGTN has bias without addressing the content of the article is a form of ad hominem fallacy. You are dismissing the content of the article by attacking the source and claiming that it’s biased. You didn’t actually engage with the topic at all or show what this supposed bias is in relation to the topic. All your comment attempts to do is to shut down discussion because by attacking the source.

      • emerty@feddit.ukEnglish
        0·
        1 year ago

        From your own article 😂

        China is the largest producer and consumer of hydrogen globally, but less than 0.1 percent of the hydrogen it produces comes from renewable energy sources.