> you need to touch grass, the text you sent just has the same allegations, nothing new nothing concrete
The details are classified. You and I don’t get to see them. The people who do get to see the classified evidence, like some of the congresspeople I mentioned, take it seriously. The whistleblowers have allegedly provided Congress with the names of the people in charge of the reverse-engineering projects and the locations of the materials.
Think again about that: the elected representatives with the best access to the most sensitive information take it seriously.
What alternative explanation do you have for multiple congresspeople from both sides of the aisle being willing to investigate these claims and writing new laws to encourage more whistleblowers to come out?
> why have i never heard of flying saucers in africa?
How much news do you get from Africa, generally? You won’t know things when you don’t look for them.
extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; however, there is none.
congresspeople taking it seriously doesn’t mean much. they also take climate denial seriously. they took anti vaccines seriously. they’re just laywers, by and large. they don’t actually know much of anything about science or the probability of aliens visiting or whatever.
as a (former) astronomer, let me tell you that even if there does exist life in the universe outside of our own, even if these lifeforms travel these vast distances fast (somehow, the physics isn’t really clear), even if these supposed spacecraft are manned, the probability of anything visiting earth is infinitesimally small. the universe is just too big and empty. think about it, space has on average a single hydrogen atom per cubic meter. on earth an equivalent volume of air, let’s say, holds 10^25 atoms. and throughout billions of lightyears of this dark, empty vacuum you stumble upon…us? it just doesn’t make any sense when you think about it. sure, the idea of aliens visiting is cool but at the end of the day, it aint happenin
I’m with you that there is no publicly available proof of non-human intelligence. And I agree that the testimony of congresspeople isn’t exactly the best way to ascertain whether something is true.
But I’m not claiming that non-human intelligences are here, I’m merely answering the question posted by the OP: the allegations made by Grusch and other whistleblowers are being investigated by Congress, and that they have shared with Congress testable evidence that has not been made public. That includes program names, names of the people in charge of those programs and the location of some of those retrieved craft.
Everything else is our personal opinion, strongly as we may feel about it. I personally think it is worth investigating these allegations. If the witnesses have lied to Congress under oath, they need to suffer the consequences. But if they haven’t… Well.
I personally think it is worth investigating these allegations
And you hit the nail on the head about why an elected representative won’t say one way or the other unless it’s objectively proven or shown to be false - anything else doesn’t need a response. Further any rep who does claim the matter to have been solved, one way or the other, only opens themselves up to criticism for something they probably didn’t get into politics for in the first place.
When scientists and experts (plural) start getting involved then it’s interesting however, imo, your focus on government being the ultimate truth-finder is flawed
Look at this post: respectful comments answering the question and offering objectively verifiable data are downvoted to hell, while comments laughing at the whole subject in a few words are heavily upvoted. The stigma is massive, and yet the subject continues to get traction in both parties in the US Congress, with several bills having passed and further in the pipeline. Perhaps we should consider the possibility that there are some things that we the public don’t know about it.
your focus on government being the ultimate truth-finder is flawed
Oh, no. What I believe is that certain institutions within our governments are the ultimate truth-keepers, because they have the means to be. Look for example at how little the public is allowed to know about national defense (e.g. the design and capabilities of submarines).
If the elected Congress is able to rat out these alleged secret programs and brings them back under the standard Congressional oversight, then at least you have the possibility of some information being made public.
I don’t know about you, but if there is indeed a non-human intelligence occasionally visiting Earth, I would like to know, even if details about e.g. their technology aren’t made public.
And if all there is to it is some high-ranking officials making stories up and lying to Congress, I also would want them to be put behind bars for wasting the time of our elected representatives.
Yes dude (or dudette) exactly what I’m saying is that it can’t be proven one way or the other until “you have the possibility of some information being made public”.
I am in complete agreement with you. At the same time, information will not be made public unless the public demands it. As long as the public remains docile and continues to laugh at everybody who suggests there may be something here, the public will be kept ignorant.
The fact that Trump never revealed anything about Aliens is all the proof you need. He would never have been able to shut it about it if there was even a grain of truth to it
What makes you think that the alleged programs that have been supposedly kept secret from the Congress for decades were revealed to Trump? It stands to reason that if such programs existed, they would have been hidden from him as well.
But that is precisely the central allegation of the whistleblowers that we are discussing: that certain research programs have been kept hidden from the Congress. And that is why the Congress has already passed bills to encourage whistleblowers to come out and report what they know specifically about UFOs.
Why did they write such specific legislation? Do you think it may be because they already knew about some whistleblowers that wanted to speak?
> you need to touch grass, the text you sent just has the same allegations, nothing new nothing concrete
The details are classified. You and I don’t get to see them. The people who do get to see the classified evidence, like some of the congresspeople I mentioned, take it seriously. The whistleblowers have allegedly provided Congress with the names of the people in charge of the reverse-engineering projects and the locations of the materials.
Think again about that: the elected representatives with the best access to the most sensitive information take it seriously.
What alternative explanation do you have for multiple congresspeople from both sides of the aisle being willing to investigate these claims and writing new laws to encourage more whistleblowers to come out?
> why have i never heard of flying saucers in africa?
How much news do you get from Africa, generally? You won’t know things when you don’t look for them.
One of the most widely known mass UFO sightings happened in Zimbabwe in 1994 in the Ariel School.
extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; however, there is none.
congresspeople taking it seriously doesn’t mean much. they also take climate denial seriously. they took anti vaccines seriously. they’re just laywers, by and large. they don’t actually know much of anything about science or the probability of aliens visiting or whatever.
as a (former) astronomer, let me tell you that even if there does exist life in the universe outside of our own, even if these lifeforms travel these vast distances fast (somehow, the physics isn’t really clear), even if these supposed spacecraft are manned, the probability of anything visiting earth is infinitesimally small. the universe is just too big and empty. think about it, space has on average a single hydrogen atom per cubic meter. on earth an equivalent volume of air, let’s say, holds 10^25 atoms. and throughout billions of lightyears of this dark, empty vacuum you stumble upon…us? it just doesn’t make any sense when you think about it. sure, the idea of aliens visiting is cool but at the end of the day, it aint happenin
I’m with you that there is no publicly available proof of non-human intelligence. And I agree that the testimony of congresspeople isn’t exactly the best way to ascertain whether something is true.
But I’m not claiming that non-human intelligences are here, I’m merely answering the question posted by the OP: the allegations made by Grusch and other whistleblowers are being investigated by Congress, and that they have shared with Congress testable evidence that has not been made public. That includes program names, names of the people in charge of those programs and the location of some of those retrieved craft.
Everything else is our personal opinion, strongly as we may feel about it. I personally think it is worth investigating these allegations. If the witnesses have lied to Congress under oath, they need to suffer the consequences. But if they haven’t… Well.
And you hit the nail on the head about why an elected representative won’t say one way or the other unless it’s objectively proven or shown to be false - anything else doesn’t need a response. Further any rep who does claim the matter to have been solved, one way or the other, only opens themselves up to criticism for something they probably didn’t get into politics for in the first place.
When scientists and experts (plural) start getting involved then it’s interesting however, imo, your focus on government being the ultimate truth-finder is flawed
Look at this post: respectful comments answering the question and offering objectively verifiable data are downvoted to hell, while comments laughing at the whole subject in a few words are heavily upvoted. The stigma is massive, and yet the subject continues to get traction in both parties in the US Congress, with several bills having passed and further in the pipeline. Perhaps we should consider the possibility that there are some things that we the public don’t know about it.
Oh, no. What I believe is that certain institutions within our governments are the ultimate truth-keepers, because they have the means to be. Look for example at how little the public is allowed to know about national defense (e.g. the design and capabilities of submarines).
I’m just seeing you agree in different words?
If government is the only one with the knowledge then it can never be proven to those who are properly skeptical
If the elected Congress is able to rat out these alleged secret programs and brings them back under the standard Congressional oversight, then at least you have the possibility of some information being made public.
I don’t know about you, but if there is indeed a non-human intelligence occasionally visiting Earth, I would like to know, even if details about e.g. their technology aren’t made public.
And if all there is to it is some high-ranking officials making stories up and lying to Congress, I also would want them to be put behind bars for wasting the time of our elected representatives.
Yes dude (or dudette) exactly what I’m saying is that it can’t be proven one way or the other until “you have the possibility of some information being made public”.
I am in complete agreement with you. At the same time, information will not be made public unless the public demands it. As long as the public remains docile and continues to laugh at everybody who suggests there may be something here, the public will be kept ignorant.
The fact that Trump never revealed anything about Aliens is all the proof you need. He would never have been able to shut it about it if there was even a grain of truth to it
What makes you think that the alleged programs that have been supposedly kept secret from the Congress for decades were revealed to Trump? It stands to reason that if such programs existed, they would have been hidden from him as well.
I mean, if you start like that, there is no discussion to be had. “If eVeN tHe prESidEnT doESn’t know”
*insert dickbutt meme
But that is precisely the central allegation of the whistleblowers that we are discussing: that certain research programs have been kept hidden from the Congress. And that is why the Congress has already passed bills to encourage whistleblowers to come out and report what they know specifically about UFOs.
Why did they write such specific legislation? Do you think it may be because they already knew about some whistleblowers that wanted to speak?