• Rapidcreek@reddthat.com
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    1 year ago

    I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent. In that there is no US blood is an added advantage. The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule. That’s something that’s happened for a millennium, including the American revolution.

    The US didn’t impose this war, 100,000 Russians invading did. As France helped the US during the revolution, the US helps Ukraine.

    • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent.

      They’re not gonna let you into the club just because you lick the boot leather. I believe the 100.000s of dead ukrainians are more important than some vague US geopolitical goal.

      The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule.

      The ukrainians are forcibly conscripted and banned from leaving their country. They do not want to fight.

      The US didn’t impose this war, 100,000 Russians invading did

      Yeah one day putler just woke up and felt like invading, that’s what happened.

      If you think this is such a good war, go volunteer.

      • Rapidcreek@reddthat.com
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        1 year ago

        The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want, as could Putin.

        Reality is the Russians invaded. They rejected world order.

        • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want

          The Ukrainian government could, the same government that banned every political party that wasn’t sufficiently anti-Russia. And the last time the people got to vote, they elected Zelensky who ran as a peace candidate. So no, the people of Ukraine, the ones being drafted and sent to the front lines, have very little say over whether Ukraine negotiates for peace.

          • Rapidcreek@reddthat.com
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            1 year ago

            Wait a minute…you expect a country to tolerate those sympathetic with a country.that they’re at war with?

            • s0ykaf [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              why is it that every ukkkraine shill acts like history started in february 2022

              a lot of those bannings were pre-2022

            • Grimble [he/him,they/them]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              “Wait a minute” None of this surprises you. Youre doing this for show. You want us to feel guilty about our beliefs, and your plan is to act shocked and bewildered by things you know. Begone debate-pervert

              • Rapidcreek@reddthat.com
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                1 year ago

                There were Nazi groups in the US at the beginning of WWIi. They were quite large. Within a year, every leader of the Bund was interned or jailed as dangerous aliens, and by the end of December 1941, the US Government outlawed the German-American Bund

            • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              I thought Ukraine were the Good Guys ™? Good Guys don’t repress political groups because they disagree with them, they should debate them in the marketplace of ideas.

              • Rapidcreek@reddthat.com
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                1 year ago

                The US jailed every leader of the US Nazi Bund as dangerous aliens, and by the end of December 1941, the US Government outlawed the German-American Bund.

        • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want, as could Putin.

          The ukrainians are being forcibly conscripted and banned from leaving the country. They do not want to fight. The russians have sought peace negotiations several times, NATO-members like the United Kingdom, have come and stopped these negotiations.

          Reality is the Russians invaded. They rejected world order.

          Ah yes, one day evil putler woke up and decided to invade, that’s what happened. He rejected our Good Guys Rules Based Order because he’s just such an evil dude.

          • Rapidcreek@reddthat.com
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            1 year ago

            Geez…the Russians too are drafting folks. Conscription centers in Russia are firebombed. Your BS is kind of thick.

            The Russians have not sought peace negotiations.

            No, I think Putin is a murderer, comrade. I think he’s a wanted for war crimes. I think he was so stupid that he thought this would take three days.

            • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Geez…the Russians too are drafting folks. Conscription centers in Russia are firebombed. Your BS is kind of thick.

              I never said they weren’t? Nice whataboutsm. You’re saying the ukrainians want to fight, I show you they don’t, you imply I’m a bot, and you fail to engage with the argument.

              The Russians have not sought peace negotiations.

              So that was a fucking lie
              [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

              No, I think Putin is a murderer, comrade. I think he’s a wanted for war crimes. I think he was so stupid that he thought this would take three days.

              Hey thanks for implying I’m a russian bot just because I disagree with you! Fuck you! Newsflash: People can disagree with you.
              I’ve never said he wasn’t a murderer or wanted for warcrimes (though if we’re being fair, every US president is wanted for war crimes in several countries as well.) I think a guy who leads a country as big as Russia is many things, but imagining he could move state apparatus on his own to invade another country based on a whim of his, and when this whim fails he would still be in power, is incredibly stupid. Had this been the case, then Prigozhins coup would have had support. Russias reasons for invading are many, boiling it down to “Putler bad lmao” is as stupid as it is naive.

              If you think he is specifically so evil, why aren’t you volunteering in Ukraine against him?

              • Rapidcreek@reddthat.com
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                1 year ago

                “I never said they weren’t.” You said that because Ukraine drafts fighters they don’t want to fight. That’s BS.

                There has been no Russian yearning for peace talks. Even china’s efforts could not move the needle.

                Newsflash: calling someone comrade does not imply anything

                Name a US president wanted by the International Criminal Court.

                Putin is stupid. Prigozhin’s coup did have support and now he’s dead.

                • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                  “I never said they weren’t.” You said that because Ukraine drafts fighters they don’t want to fight. That’s BS.

                  The ukrainians are being forcibly conscripted and banned from leaving the country. That’s not bs, they do not want to fight. If they wanted to fight, forcible conscription would not be necessary. Banning people from fleeing forcible conscription would not be necessary.

                  There has been no Russian yearning for peace talks. Even china’s efforts could not move the needle.

                  You said russians had not held peace talks, I showed you to be a liar. You are now moving the goalposts to an unfalsifiable claim of “russians aren’t yearning for peace”. This also ignores the sources I have provided you.

                  Newsflash: calling someone comrade does not imply anything

                  Why did you call me comrade? We are not agreeing on anything, and I have given no indication of being either russian or a communist. You have also not called other users “comrade” until they started disagreeing with you. This is kindergarten level shit, 5-year-olds are too mature to do what you’re doing.

                  Name a US president wanted by the International Criminal Court.

                  I never said the ICC. I said every US president is wanted for war crimes in several countries. Name a US president that has not commited a war crime.

                  Putin is stupid. Prigozhin’s coup did have support and now he’s dead.

                  On what grounds is he stupid? If the coup had support, where was this support as it was happening? Where was this support after? Where were his compatriots? You keep just making shit up. Also work on your reading comprehension

                  • Rapidcreek@reddthat.com
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                    1 year ago

                    I never said they weren’t."

                    The Russians are being forcibly conscripted and banned from leaving the country. That’s not bs, they do not want to fight. If they wanted to fight, forcible conscription would not be necessary. Banning people from fleeing forcible conscription would not be necessary.

                    See how easy that is? Moot

                    I never said the ICC. I said every US president is wanted for war crimes in severa…

                    That’s because there isn’t one. However Putin is.

                    In retrospect do you think invadeing Ukraine was a smart or stupid thing to do?

                • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  Name a US president wanted by the International Criminal Court.

                  In august of 2002, less than a year before our invasion of Iraq, the US signed the Hague Invasion act into law. There are no Americans on trial for war crimes at the ICC because we officially threatened to war crime them about it.

    • BelieveRevolt [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      ”This is a US proxy war.”

      ”That’s an uninformed rant!”

      ”This is a US proxy war, and that’s a good thing.”

    • TomBombadil [he/him, she/her]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule.

      Yes good thing their escaping tyrannical rule for totally wholesome democratic rule… That bans all opposition parties and bombs their own country for nearly a decade

    • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent.

      Which is why so many nations are smelling the blood in the water and casting off their western neocolonial overlords in Africa right now.

      Lmao.

      In that there is no US blood is an added advantage.

      hitler-detector

    • Grimble [he/him,they/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      farquaad-point Department of Naval Intelligence

      American revolution was a counterrevolution you dolt. Now go ahead, tell me I “support the British empire” bc you can only think exactly one step ahead.

    • HornyOnMain [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      to reject tyrannical rule. That’s something that’s happened for a millennium, including the American revolution.

      https://readsettlers.org/ch2.html

      long extract from Settlers about the nature of the 1776 revolution

      We need to see the dialectical unity of democracy and oppression in developing settler Amerika. The winning of citizenship rights by poorer settlers or non-Anglo-Saxon Europeans is democratic in form. The enrollment of the white masses into new, mass instruments of repression-such as the formation of the infamous Slave Patrols in Virginia in 1727 — is obviously anti-democratic and reactionary. Yet these opposites in form are, in their essence, united as aspects of creating the new citizenry of Babylon. This is why our relationship to “democratic” struggles among the settlers has not been one of simple unity.

      This was fully proven in practice once again by the 1776 War of Independence, a war in which most of the Indian and Afrikan peoples opposed settler nationhood and the consolidation of Amerika. In fact, the majority of oppressed people gladly allied themselves to the British forces in hopes of crushing the settlers.

      This clash, between an Old European empire and the emerging Euro-Amerikan empire, was inevitable decades before actual fighting came. The decisive point came when British capitalism decided to clip the wings of the new Euro-Amerikan bourgeoisie — they restricted emigration, hampered industry and trade, and pursued a long-range plan to confine the settler population to a controllable strip of territory along the Atlantic seacoast. They proposed, for their own imperial needs, that the infant Amerika be permanently stunted. After all, the European conquest of just the Eastern shores of North America had already produced, by the time of Independence, a population almost one-third as large as that of England and Ireland. They feared that unchecked, the Colonial tail might someday wag the imperial dog (as indeed it has).

      Like Bacon’s Rebellion, the “liberty” that the Amerikan Revolutionists of the 1770’s fought for was in large part the freedom to conquer new Indian lands and profit from the commerce of the slave trade, without any restrictions or limitations. In other words, the bourgeois “freedom” to oppress and exploit others. The successful future of the settler capitalists demanded the scope of independent nationhood.

      But as the first flush of settler enthusiasm faded into the unhappy realization of how grim and bloody this war would be, the settler “sunshine soldiers” faded from the ranks to go home and stay home. Almost one-third of the Continental Army deserted at Valley Forge. So enlistment bribes were widely offered to get recruits. New York State offered new enlistments 400 acres each of Indian land. Virginia offered an enlistment bonus of an Afrikan slave (guaranteed to be not younger than age ten) and 100 acres of Indian land. In South Carolina, Gen. Sumter used a share-the-loot scheme, whereby each settler volunteer would get an Afrikan captured from Tory estates. Even these extraordinarily generous offers failed to spark any sacrificial enthusiasm among the settler masses. (14)

      It was Afrikans who greeted the war with great enthusiasm. But while the settler slavemasters sought “democracy” through wresting their nationhood away from England, their slaves sought liberation by overthrowing Amerika or escaping from it. Far from being either patriotic Amerikan subjects or passively enslaved neutrals, the Afrikan masses threw themselves daringly and passionately into the jaws of war on an unprecedented scale — that is, into their own war, against slave Amerika and for freedom.

      The British, short of troops and laborers, decided to use both the Indian nations and the Afrikan slaves to help bring down the settler rebels. This was nothing unique; the French had extensively used Indian military alliances and the British extensively used Afrikan slave recruits in their 1756-63 war over North America (called “The French & Indian War” in settler history books). But the Euro-Amerikan settlers, sitting on the dynamite of a restive, nationally oppressed Afrikan population, were terrified — and outraged.

      This was the final proof to many settlers of King George III’s evil tyranny. An English gentlewoman traveling in the Colonies wrote that popular settler indignation was so great that it stood to unite rebels and Tories again. (15) Tom Paine, in his revolutionary pamphlet Common Sense, raged against “…that barbarous and hellish power which hath stirred up Indians and Negroes to destroy us.” (16) But oppressed peoples saw this war as a wonderful contradiction to be exploited in the ranks of the European capitalists.

      Lord Dunmore was Royal Governor of Virginia in name, but ruler over so little that he had to reside aboard a British warship anchored offshore. Urgently needing reinforcements for his outnumbered command, on Nov. 5, 1775 he issued a proclamation that any slaves enlisting in his forces would be freed. Sir Henry Clinton, commander of British forces in North America, later issued an even broader offer:

      I do most strictly forbid any Person to sell or claim Right over any Negroe, the property of a Rebel, who may claim refuge in any part of this Army; And I do promise to every Negroe who shall desert the Rebel Standard, full security to follow within these Lines, any Occupation which he shall think proper. (17)

      Could any horn have called more clearly? By the thousands upon thousands, Afrikans struggled to reach British lines. One historian of the Exodus has said: “The British move was countered by the Americans, who exercised closer vigilance over their slaves, removed the able-bodied to interior places far from the scene of the war, and threatened with dire punishment all who sought to join the enemy. To Negroes attempting to flee to the British the alternatives ‘Liberty or Death’ took on an almost literal meaning. Nevertheless, by land and sea they made their way to the British forces.” (18)

      The war was a disruption to Slave Amerika, a chaotic gap in the European capitalist ranks to be hit hard. Afrikans seized the time — not by the tens or hundreds, but by the many thousands. Amerika shook with the tremors of their movement. The signers of the Declaration of Independence were bitter about their personal losses: Thomas Jefferson lost many of his slaves; Virginia’s Governor Benjamin Harrison lost thirty of “my finest slaves”; William Lee lost sixty-five slaves, and said two of his neighbors “lost every slave they had in the world”; South Carolina’s Arthur Middleton lost fifty slaves. (19)

      Afrikans were writing their own “Declaration of Independence” by escaping. Many settler patriots tried to appeal to the British forces to exercise European solidarity and expel the Rebel slaves. George Washington had to denounce his own brother for bringing food to the British troops, in a vain effort to coax them into returning the Washington family slaves. (20) Yes, the settler patriots were definitely upset to see some real freedom get loosed upon the land.

      To this day no one really knows how many slaves freed themselves during the war. Georgia settlers were said to have lost over 10,000 slaves, while the number of Afrikan escaped prisoners in South Carolina and Virginia was thought to total well over 50,000. Many, in the disruption of war, passed themselves off as freemen and relocated in other territories, fled to British Florida and Canada, or took refuge in Maroon communities or with the Indian nations. It has been estimated that 100,000 Afrikan prisoners — some 20% of the slave population — freed themselves during the war.

    • Annakah69 [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Who gives a fuck about the money? Hundreds of thousands are dead, and we are close to nuclear annihilation.

      You are enthralled to a demon. Wake up and imagine you were marched to the frontlines.