• Veltoss@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Gotta love how they told people to go south then bombed them there, as well as hospitals. And they can just say every target, no matter how many civilians die, was a “Hamas target” and it’s “Hamas’ responsibility to protect civilians” while they indiscriminately bomb these civilians.

    Crazy that more people aren’t speaking up against this.

    • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      They told people to evacuate and then bombed the evacuation routes.

      Israeli spokespersons keep saying they’re fighting Nazis, but I only see Nazis on their side of this.

    • xuxebiko@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Once Palestinians starteing evacuating North Gaza, Israel bombed the humanitarian corridor that they’d declared as safe.

      Russia did the same to Ukrainians last year and EU & NATO & UN supported Ukraine. Now they support Israel.

    • dependencyInjection@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      I swear to God, I can’t name another country that takes such little criticism ever in the MSM other than Israel.

      A fucking hospital ffs.

    • AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      For many it’s the sunk cost fallacy.

      They’ve rhetorically, unreservedly supported Israel for half a century, and they will not be reexamining those intransigent beliefs today, thank you very much.

      "The Doctor: How much blood will spill until everybody does what they’re always going to have to do from the very beginning – sit down and talk! Listen to me, listen. I just – I just want you to think. Do you know what thinking is? It’s just a fancy word for changing your mind.

      Bonnie: I will not change my mind.

      The Doctor: Then you will die stupid."

      -Steven Moffat, excerpt from Doctor Who

  • LollerCorleone@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    If it was any other West Asian country doing this, the entire West would be denouncing them and taking action. But because its Israel doing it, this is fine.

    • Jo Miran@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Because there are consequences of you go against the grain. It’s all about money…always. Palestinians have little to no money and influence.

      • thoro@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        It’s sad that this type of comment can be and is often spun as “antisemitism”

        • CoderKat@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Agreed. It’s also frustrating that the labeling of anything anti-Zionist as anti-Semitism just gives actual anti-Semites the opportunity to claim their actual anti-Semitism is anything but.

        • Jo Miran@lemmy.ml
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          I will never fault someone for standing up for their people. In fact, one has to admire the fact that this person put their money (and reputation) where their mouth is. We strongly disagree on the matter, but antisemitism has nothing to do with it.

          A question, for me, is where is the same pressure from other players? Where are the mega rich Arabs and Muslims pulling their funding because somebody didn’t put out a pro-Palestine message. Step up!

          • possibly a cat@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Where are the mega rich Arabs and Muslims pulling their funding because somebody didn’t put out a pro-Palestine message.

            I think you might be a little confused about the current geopolitics and investment in the area. This flared up in part because SA was giving up on the Palestinians and moving towards accepting a single state under Israeli rule. That’s where most of the local money and power resides and it’s not really aligned with Palestinians.

            On the other hand Iran is Palestine’s ally and they have put their limited money where their mouth us, up to the point of threatening Israel with an invasion if they do not control their hostilities. Afaik they don’t have much investment in Israel and allies to pull out, so threats of military intervention are the tactic that is available to them. The vast majority of investment that exists in order to be pulled in the first place, is invested in Israel. (Afghanistan is a wasteland now but iirc they had also people wanting to travel to defend Gaza fwiw.)

            The pro-Palestinians basically are pulling out all of the stops, it’s just that the pieces on the board are overwhelmingly skewed against them. And the actions they have available are not going to be viewed favorably by citizens of the hegemonic countries (5eyes, etc.) because those actions threaten the relatively unipolar world order. Those actions also won’t be heavily reported on in countries aligned with Israel - unless the purpose is to wrap it in a message that drives jingoism - because it portrays weakness and discrepancies with the official narrative on the region (which is aligned with US-ally SA’s campaign for a single state).

            Looking at other regional stakeholders:

            Lebanon isn’t controlled by the state much right now, but that state wasn’t aligned with Palestine because the government was set up to split the local religions and the final design gave an advantage to the Christians. Waves of left-wing Palestinian refugees from conflict in the south eventually changed the demographics. The West-aligned Christian leaders decided they were a political threat and hostilities broke out, the state received military support from the US which suppressed the resistance for a time, but the situation didn’t really change and there have been various outbreaks since. The tensions remain.

            Jordan allied with displaced Palestinian militants at one point to fight Israel. After the conflict’s resolution, tension grew because the Palestinians were left-wing and Jordan is a monarchy ruled by a royal family. Jordan saw their ideology as a political threat and started bombing their refugee camps, and they Palestinians mobilized in response against the state.

            It’s probably worth mentioning that Palestinian organizations were communist during the Cold War - they had a lot of enemies. It’s my opinion that the current narrative on Palestine in terms of geopolitics is in many ways a continuation of Cold War rhetoric and agendas.

            But the secular element was defeated in elections by Israel-supported Hamas, and now there is a more theological aspect driving the resistance. At one point their official stance was, imo, genocidal - that language was relaxed a few years after the elections and it is now officially a more territorial agenda. On the other hand, we all know how religious extremists act when not kept in check (although we should be careful not to be tricked into thinking all militants, including those giving orders, are religious extremists - reportedly Hamas’ campaign on the 7th was ordered to take hostages and not kill civilians, and that the IDF basically implemented the Hannibal Doctrine against it’s own civilians leading to significant friendly fire casualties [even as reported by an Israeli who was held hostage and later interviewed on Israeli news]; you can see how murky the waters get in a propaganda war).

            Which is why I think the defeat of the secular element was monumentally disastrous for… just about every party on Earth.

            There is also the Palestinian Authority that is somewhat competing with Hamas. They govern different territories but they have two radically different platforms, and as a result they are effectively competing to be recognized as the sole authority over Palestinian lands. The PA is very much trying to distance itself from Hamas right now. However there is a growing opinion that the PA were collaborators and handed Palestine to Israel/SA on a silver platter and paved the way for their own identity to be erased - with SA supporting a one-state solution giving weight to the opinion.

            So… Palestine doesn’t have very many allies.

            As a final note, you do you, but I wonder if you know much about Wexner - and if not, whether you would choose that particular verbiage if you were more familiar with the man. I’m not trying to invalidate your sentiment but I know I personally would have held onto it until a… less reprehensible individual was the subject of discussion.

            • modifier@lemmy.ca
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              1 year ago

              (although we should be careful not to be tricked into thinking all militants, including those giving orders, are religious extremists - reportedly Hamas’ campaign on the 7th was ordered to take hostages and not kill civilians, and that the IDF basically implemented the Hannibal Doctrine against it’s own civilians leading to significant friendly fire casualties [even as reported by an Israeli who was held hostage and later interviewed on Israeli news]; you can see how murky the waters get in a propaganda war).

              Can you share some of the reporting behind this use of ‘reportedly’. I have never seen this reported before though I am admittedly not reading everything.

              • possibly a cat@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Yeah let me dig it up…

                Here we go

                Disclaimer: Regardless of how much is true or false, this article is what I would call propaganda. (Sometimes that’s all you have to work with.) I’m not sharing it under the pretenses that it is accurate or unbiased.

                • modifier@lemmy.ca
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                  1 year ago

                  It’s difficult to tell if you believe it or not because you’ve referenced it within a larger point about how much confusion there is, but it seems like you believe it enough to repeat it. If so, what about the article makes you believe it or not?

            • Jo Miran@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Arabs think of palestians as white trash cousins you don’t want at your wedding…

              I have no idea if this is true or not but it seems like a gross generalization.

              Also, US keeping them on a short lease with arms sales

              Irrelevant. I’m talking about individuals not governments.

    • xuxebiko@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      the toxic sludge of racism + Islamophobia = support and empowerment for Israel to ethnically cleanse Palestine of Palestinians.

      • glimse@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        The other, possibly larger, part of it is the fear of being labeled antisemitic. Antisemitism is a huge problem all over the world but Jews aren’t to blame for what’s going on - Zionist are.

        • ALQ@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Yep. And yet Israel is giving the rest of the world more excuses for antisemitism. Who is even winning this “war,” other than Bibi and his toadies?

          • glimse@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            No one. Jews everywhere will take a reputation hit from the public at large because Bibi pretends to speak for them.

            I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood. I worked at a Jewish family business. I have lots of Jewish friends. And I’ve yet to meet a Jew who likes the guy…even the ones who support an Israeli state.

            • ALQ@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Agreed. I’m Jewish and have never supported Israel, but my parents do and even they hate him.

              • glimse@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                I think I support the idea of Israel because they’ve historically been a target of genocide but I recognize that it’s not my land being given away to make it. It’s the perpetual expansion if Israel that bothers me.

                Zionists originally wanted a homeland and they got it. Now, Zionists want an empire. I’m pretty sure Palestine won’t exist after this conflict. You give a mouse a cookie…

    • ubermeisters@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      It’s OK, they are others.

      I’m so fucking mad that THIS is the reason people are saying congress needs to get it’s shit together. Fuck you(them, not YOU). We shouldn’t be sending aid to anyone over there right now. It’s too messy and everyone sucks too much.

      Representatives should be working 23.5 hours a day to get this country running again FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE. Not so they can approve more money to assist Isreal in killing more civilians. Fucking absolutely indicative of the fact that We The People no longer have representation in the government. O KY rhe 1% get representation now, and they want revelations to come true so bad they will throw money at the middle East until “it happens”.

      Fuck the government, fuck the police, and fuck all these toxic ass Christians. So tired of government sponsored domestic terrorism being normalized.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Settlers made up a lie about Hamas beheading 40 babies and tricked Biden into saying he saw pictures.

          It was later corrected: he didn’t see any pictures because there are no pictures.

        • Nix@merv.news
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          1 year ago

          A fake story used as propaganda to manufacture consent for the genocide of Palestinians. Mainstream media and celebrities were repeating it blindly a week ago saying 40 beheaded babies were found

      • LollerCorleone@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Well, Israel is bound by international

        The entire issue here is that they aren’t. They are openly committing war crimes in breach of international conventions and none of the self-appointed guardians of democracy in the West seem to be batting an eye.

      • ubermeisters@lemmy.world
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        “It’s complicated” is double speak for “if I say what I think, you people will realize how shitty my views are, and I’m unprepared to back them up with rational explinatiom because i have none”

  • OurToothbrush@lemmy.mlM
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    1 year ago

    Some nerd reported the post suggesting that maybe it was a Palestinian air strike. LMAO

    • ApexHunter@lemmy.ml
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      Israel is claiming that some rockets launched by Hamas towards Israel went off course and hit the hospital.

      I remember Russia staging a “Ukrainian missle attack”, but they were so bad at it that the damage was on the side of buildings facing away from Ukraine. Should be pretty easy to check that here too…

      • diegeticscream[all]🔻@lemmygrad.ml
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        Hamas has never shown the capacity to level a full building. This war would be much shorter if they could.

        Every successful rocket strike of theirs is a simple smoking hole.

        The zionist state, on the other hand, has bombed this exact hospital before, has extensively bragged about their bombing capability, and cannot stop lying.

        This is less complicated than you’re making it out to be.

                • Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  I don’t doubt that. This is not me defending Israel. This is me trying to figure out what’s actually happening.

                • Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee
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                  My stance on the situation briefly: State of Israel shouldn’t have been put there in the first place. Zionists are religious extremists and I’m against them. Palestinians on the other hand had their land forcibly taken from them which I don’t agree with, and they have every right to be pissed about it. Hamas on the other hand is religious extremst group aswell and they’re indiscriminately murdering innocent civilians (as are the jewish extremists aswell) so I’m against them too. The only people I’m in favour here of are the millions of innocent civilians on the both sides who’d just want to be treated fairly and live peacefully.

                  So I’m biased yeah, but it’s a bit more nuanced than that.

          • SexMachineStalin [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            Ah yes because a 1,000kg bomb that took over a thousand lives in one go “might not” level an entire building. And despite reddit-logo actually celebrating, it could have been an accident.

            PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS PIGPOOPBALLS

              • o_d [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
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                Lmao. The “I didn’t see it so it didn’t happen” defence. Take a time out and you can have a juice box 👶🧃

              • Yeah the “field of bodies” video is pretty easy to find even if you’re not looking for it. I don’t blame you for not wanting to see the shit, It’s terrible. But don’t come with some fake claim that only cars can be found. “Leveled” is a word used to mean “made rubble” sometimes and “made to be as useless and dangerous as rubble” others. This is probably the latter time, but I haven’t seen videos showing the remains of the building honestly. I don’t search for this shit tho

      • FreakingSpy [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        Adding to the dogpile here: IDF and Israel Twitter profiles posted videos that “proved” this, then people quoted old tweets showing that video was from the last year

      • novibe@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        They should’ve peacefully marched and protested!

        …. Like they did in 2018 and got brutally shot down by the dozens of thousands, with thousands of dead and more than 10 times that maimed for life with their knees destroyed, intentionally, by IDF soldiers as they laughed? When they marched peacefully towards the walls and barriers, making their concerns heard in protests and absolutely nothing got better and no one cared?

        In any case, we all know everything we’ve ever achieved was done through peaceful protest. Like the civil rights movement! MLK made some speeches and the white bourgeoisie felt bad and changed all the laws.

        Don’t look into how MLK was murdered and there was mass protest and revolt with plenty of violence before any changes ever happened…

      • Crikeste@lemm.ee
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        Don’t you see! You can challenge your oppressors with peace and forgiveness!

        Dorky ass motherfuckers who wouldn’t last a single day under the Israeli foot.

      • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        This is a bullshit excuse for violence against innocent bystanders. You can (and Israel supporters DO) apply this exact same argument to Israel: “And what exactly SHOULD they do about HAMAS, Mr. Smarty-pants, just let terrorists run pel mel, unpunished?”

        I don’t have an affirmative answer; if I did I’d be happy to collect my Nobel peace prize. What I do have is the understanding that “but you just don’t understand, it’s justified when WE do it” is a giant crock of shit, and it’s the lie that every oppressor through the ages (including Israel) has told themselves.

        Edit: Other countries need to step up their game. It’s plain to see what’s happening in Palestine, even with the internet and electricity blackouts imposed there, so one can only imagine how much worse it really is. The US and others need to step up and denounce this shit, tell Israel to go to the bargaining table for real or they’re off the teat for good.

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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              No, seriously. If you don’t have an answer then you have to defer to the people struggling on the ground. You don’t get to moralize to them when they’re fighting for their lives against genocide.

    • Deanne@iusearchlinux.fyi
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      i’ve given up caring about it edit: i should’ve clarified myself. i do wish the best for people that are affected by this “war” (idk what to call it) but i’ve simply given up caring about who wins or what happens on any war or attack. in the end it’s people dying and that makes me sad so i simply try not to care about anything like this

      • Cyclohexane@lemmy.ml
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        The 2.5 million in Gaza sadly don’t have this privilege and can’t stop caring.

          • Cyclohexane@lemmy.ml
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            The only threat the people in Israel are under right now is their own state waging war.

            Most Israelis are living their normal lives still. Parties and clubs still happened over the weekend without issue. It’s been 9 days of 2.5 million Gaza-ians not having a drop of water, an ounce of food, or a minute of electricity imported.

          • masquenox@lemmy.ml
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            9 million in Israel under constant rocket fire.

            Sorry - please remind me… what are they doing in Palestine again?

      • ubermeisters@lemmy.world
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        This is a very rare honest moment to see from a stranger. Youre gonna be crucified for it, karma-speaking, as you should, but I just want to say at a minimum, I appreciate your brutal, raw honesty.

  • ☭ Blursty ☭@lemmygrad.ml
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    Hamas not killing more than 50 people with rockets in the last 20 years but had this hospital flattening rocket all along which they only decided to use tonight, it then blew up a hospital that just happened to be the one the Israelis told to evacuate before they bombed it. Yeah?

  • wildeaboutoskar@beehaw.org
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    I don’t understand a lot about this conflict but surely there can be no justification for this. Those poor people