Modern cars have MASSIVE digital displays, loads of computers systems monitoring every subsystem and internal diagnostics running to the OBDII ports.

Why the hell can’t we get diagnostic feeds on our console or infotainment center?

I’m not aware of any car manufacturers selling their own diagnostic ASICs, so it’s not an extra margin to squeeze afaik…

What gives? Any insight into this beyond the usual muh corporate profits conjecture?

  • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    Because FUCK YOU. That’s why.

    Car companies want you to go back to the dealership to have codes read. They had to be sued into releasing the code’s meanings so independent shops and owners could do their own repairs.

    Even though most car owners are knuckle draggers who don’t understand oil changes or air filter changes, they don’t want to make it any easier to do repairs outside of dealerships. I know someone who swears by dealerships and was very confused when I asked if he ever changed the air filter to improve fuel economy. For some reason, he thought his car didn’t have one.

      • boonhet@lemm.ee
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        3 days ago

        Ironically, BMWs do or at least used to, have diagnostic functionality in their infotainment centers. It wouldn’t go very deep, but it was more informative than “lol engine bad visit workshop”. It’d still tell you to visit the workshop, but it’d also tell you why.

      • BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works
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        3 days ago

        No, you’re thinking of Mercedes, this is BMW so you have to buy the ‘fuck you’ subscription, just a monthly 15€, to get that amount of response from them.

        That subscription is only available for customers who have bought the “car seat heat ON”, “car seat heat OFF”, “AC direction control with an optional AC temperature control upgrade”, AND the “rear mirror defrost” subscriptions … as well as having less than 20000km on the odometer, past 20k km the subscription is 20€ and requires the “advanced oil leak detection system” subscription (it’s just a light on the dash to remind you to casually look where you parked for oil spots)

        Fuck BMW, let me have an Opel Kadett instead

  • LordCrom@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    If they wanted you to have that info, the software that powers the code reader would already be in the cars computer and would show human readable errors.

    They don’t

  • AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml
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    5 days ago

    The sad answer is that those displays exist to cut costs, not to make your ownership experience better.

    Also the dealers want you to come to them for that CEL, and the companies don’t want to piss off the dealers.

    • saltesc@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      They make the ownership experience worse. I fucking hate mine.

      I wish I could replace half of the real estate with buttons and.knobs but nooooo, I can’t afford a car with such fancy craftsmanship so it’s a cheap shitty screen with a cheap shitty OS instead. And everyone things it’s fancy…LOL

          • AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml
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            4 days ago

            Nice! I’m glad other brands are still sane. Nissan is moving towards all-screen and I think that’s my cue to leave them.

            • bobs_monkey@lemm.ee
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              4 days ago

              Iirc there was a push on manufacturers from the NHTSA to return to physical controls for things like HVAC and media due to safety concerns, but I don’t know how official that was.

    • Botzo@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      Just to throw this out there, but car dealership owners are close to the scummiest people on the planet.

    • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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      4 days ago

      Why don’t the companies want to piss off the dealers? Is some Toyota dealership really gonna stop selling Toyotas because a Toyota comes out with a self-diagnosis feature?

  • Crashumbc@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    They want you to go to the dealership…

    The only reason you can read the codes at all is because of regulation… For now thanks Trump

  • bstix@feddit.dk
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    4 days ago

    They don’t want to maintain the software for it.

    Also, they simply don’t want you to know. Especially if the whole setup is already a patchwork of sensors that barely work together in the first place. It might cause unnecessary questions, concerns or even liabilities.

    A lot of it is useless anyway as long as the car is not broken, and if it is broken, the sensor might be broken too. It’s meant for diagnostics only.

    • recreationalcatheter@lemm.eeOP
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      4 days ago

      They don’t want to maintain the software for it.

      That’s fine, I just want the error codes displayed on the existing screens. No software necessary for that. Maybe a simple script at worst…

      Also, they simply don’t want you to know.

      They want it to be known, otherwise there wouldn’t be fail codes output to the OBDII port…

      It’s meant for diagnostics only.

      Yes. Why don’t they display diagnostics error codes on the existing displays? I’m fine with special display modes and “secret” menu options.

      • Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca
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        3 days ago

        They want it to be known, otherwise there wouldn’t be fail codes output to the OBDII port…

        That’s only there because it’s required by law since 1996, and only a small subset of those codes are actually standardized/required. Many of them are specific to vehicle manufacturer and are only known to the public due to leaked documentation.

        Auto corporations don’t want you to easily have diagnostic info beyond the most basic things (tire pressure for example), they want you to bring it back to them. They don’t profit off you fixing it yourself.

  • radau@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    4 days ago

    The same reason they won’t let you buy the dealership scan software for under 10k. Almost every maker has an in house scanner and due to standards they only need to provide certain data to non dealer level tools and I believe the standard only exists for gas powered vehicles that need to provide OBD2 data. Plenty of makers (BMW is horrible about this) stuff away data where a normal obd scanner just won’t access and it’s gotten much worse with the overuse of CANBus (I sure love when my trunk lid sensor prevents my fucking car from starting).

    Thats where your snapon and other third party scanners start bringing a gap, but even those are extremely pricey and need to be updated constantly and even those usually won’t do EVERYTHING.

    Fwiw the cheapest and best way I’ve found is basically to pirate the dealer software and get a compatible knockoff scanner (vxdiag for example). I have Ford IDS and a couple others this way but assume that the software is gonna install something malicious and dedicate an old Thinkpad or something to it.

    Depending on the age of your vehicle something like Torque Pro is extremely useful. I have mine monitoring transmission temp, long and short term fuel trims, O2 sensor signals, voltage, mass air speed, intake temp. It’s more than enough data to see something coming long before it becomes an issue.

    • CmdrShepard42@lemm.ee
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      4 days ago

      If you have a Ford, there’s free software called Forscan that will perform all of the duties of the dealer service software. I used it when I replaced my wife’s ABS module on her Edge. You can even use it to program keys and modify things.

      • radau@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        4 days ago

        Yep FORScan let me set the VIN on an electronic power steering rack (because that’s totally cool to require so you can’t just replace it at home right?).

        I beleive it is actually IDS just reverse engineered and more accessible, unfortunately not every maker has one of those out there it really should be legally required when you buy the car to at least get the software to “own” it.

        • CmdrShepard42@lemm.ee
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          Yeah I was so psyched when I came across it while trying to diagnose the ABS issue. I searched for something similar for Toyota and Chevy for our other cars but was bummed that nothing like it exists for either one.

  • madnificent@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    There is a standard connector which existed before big screens landed in cars, the OBD2 connector. Dongles are cheap and you can read the output from your phone or computer. Some dongles support bluetooth. The connector is mandated in some markets and I guess that makes it less interesting to add a redundant interface inside of the car. It’s fun to try if you’re interested. Manufacturers can extend the error codes IIRC.

    Tesla has a service mode on the display through which you can scan the car for faults, run a battery test, … It is password protected but the password is publicly available.

    • shalafi@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      Bingo! You can get a BT adapter for $7 on eBay. Torque is the absolute killer app. I’m stunned something so complete and customizable is free, a few bucks for the full version. I suck at mechanics, but that has saved my butt a time or two.

      If you own a car that was made in the last several decades, it has the OBDII connector under the steering wheel and openly accessible. You just plug the adapter in and connect to your phone. The adapter and app are every bit as important to me as a jack, lug wrench and tire pump. No one should be without for a measly $20.

      My wife’s car occasionally throws an error that kills the cruise control. She can clear the error code while I’m driving! If you have ever had a mysterious check engine light, you can see exactly what it means.

      • punkfungus@sh.itjust.works
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        4 days ago

        Torque is ancient and not supported on current versions of Android.

        I’ve been using Piston for a long time and I’ve been happy with it

        • CmdrShepard42@lemm.ee
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          4 days ago

          Yeah that’s what it said for me when I clicked that playstore link. Apparently my 4 year old phone is too new to use the app.

    • WxFisch@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      Interesting fact. OBDII is a CARB requirement, so it’s tied to cars that must meet emissions standards. This is why Teslas don’t need to include one (ands it likely other manufacturers will stop including them in their electric models at some point as well). No emissions systems to check means no need for an OBDII port.

    • Nougat@fedia.io
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      5 days ago

      This is totally it. Car is already required to support OBDII, adding the ability to display diagnostic info to the screen costs more.

      • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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        4 days ago

        Yeah, particularly it costs more, which you would need customers to want to pay for. If those same customers can just get an OBD-2 connector for a fraction of the upcharge, that’s not gonna work out…

    • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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      4 days ago

      I’m guessing government regulation.

      This feature is a no-brainer. Whenever there’s a feature the market would love (and hence pay for) the reason it isn’t there is the government doesn’t allow it.

      • PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca
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        4 days ago

        It’s almost always the reverse.

        Regulation is what forced manufacturers to provide standard error codes over a standard protocol using a standard socket, so that people could self diagnose their car problems without getting locked into their dealership mechanic

  • Moonrise2473@feddit.it
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    4 days ago

    I’m not aware of any car manufacturers selling their own diagnostic ASICs, so it’s not an extra margin to squeeze afaik…

    What? The errors are intentionally vague so the drivers are forced to go to a dealer, giving them a chance to lie and pretend that’s something very serious and very expensive, while all they’re going to do is a reseat of a cable and a error reset

    Btw Car scanner supports showing obd data on Android auto. It’s a game changer for hypermilers

    • recreationalcatheter@lemm.eeOP
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      4 days ago

      I disagree… Error codes from the OBD port are usually system-specific. They make troubleshooting very easy if you use online resources… I just want a quick readout on the included hardware.

      Not a fan of dongles and such. I own a few different ‘Amazon specials’ and the UI feels like hot garbage (given I use them maybe 1-2x a year at most).

      • Moonrise2473@feddit.it
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        3 days ago

        Error codes are system specific but I mean their own dashboard just says “engine error” and not even "error 943” which you can search by yourself

    • lemming741@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      The name sounds like my phone is going to wake up in a bathtub full of ice and missing a camera module, but Car Scanner is legit.

    • CmdrShepard42@lemm.ee
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      4 days ago

      I think it’s more that the protocol is universal across the industry even though engines are all built somewhat differently, so you can only have a generic code to tell you what’s wrong.

      • Moonrise2473@feddit.it
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        3 days ago

        I mean the errors that are shown on the car dashboard. If it’s an error about the lambda sensor, it will just say “engine error, please contact dealer” or something like that

  • rumba@lemmy.zip
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    4 days ago

    We could have had readable diagnostics since they started showing multiple items on the in-dash LCDs. It’s always money.