I am an Indian and I have become hyperaware of the people and the culture that surrounds me and I am beginning to see the flaws in it. One of the flaws that trouble me the MOST is how most Indians behave when they encounter any authority figure (mostly higher class or “higher” caste or the wealthy or the bureaucrat class).
When an average Indian walks into a Government office with a corrupt bureaucrat in it, he begins treating himself as an insect, he is way too afraid and he is way too submissive and slavish, this doesn’t end here however, if you meet someone of a higher social status than yourself you become slavish and submissive there too and this happens every time an authority figure is in the room and even with people who think very highly of themselves(at their homes, with their families etc.,) I dress well and look somewhat well so once I had a guy who is my father’s age call me sir and use language which is reserved for “the higher classes”. This is not ok! I wish he had a spine, I don’t want to be him when I grow up, but I know he didn’t choose to be that way, it’s the environment he was brought up in and not being aware of one’s own slavishness.
I am not blaming my people, but I do detest the culture which caused this. And don’t be fooled, I am not an observer, I (used to) do this too and I hate this
It’s like our bones melt and our brain switches off and we become in our own eyes the lowest form of life on earth. Probably justifiably because the education we have received is subpar (counter-productive) in most cases. And you can’t think highly of yourself if you are capable of doing anything productive, but it’s not just that, it happens with those people who are productive members of the society, but to a lesser extent.
I have heard many Southern Asian countries are like this in this aspect. So, I was wondering how you treat authority in your culture and if you thought it was healthy. I would be very much interested if your culture is similar to mine and what you think might have caused it.
And most importantly, how do you think I can get rid of this disgusting habit, is it even possible in India? (fellow Indians jump in here)
edit: Thanks to everyone who replies! :)
Swede here, in general thw Swedes are very law abiding, there are plenty of laws and regulations that carries no punnishment, but they are still followed.
When I need to speak with say the tax authority, I call the general customer service number, and adopt a persona of positivity and friendlyness, I speak to them as a coworker that I need help from, this is simply because we are both trying to solve the issue.
When talking to my manager at work or even the CEO, we talk like coworkers, we joke, talk about the weekend and lunch recommendations. I know they are my managers, they know that I know that as well, there is no need to keep enforcing it in our day to day tasks.
Talking to Police is done politely and relaxed, I have never been mistreated, though I am white and clearly Swedish who lives a quiet life.
There is no higher authority in Sweden than Systembolaget.
also as a swedish person i think by far the most notable aspect is how level the playing field is when it comes to respect, primarily in schools and the like but even in other spaces.
its the norm that students and teachers are on first name basis and honorifics are almost never used anywhere. the plural 2nd person pronoun “ni” has largely fallen out of use in its other meaning as a singular 2nd person formal pronoun, being replaced with its informal counterpart “du” most of the time.
students and employees alike can freely and commonly do criticize and talk back to teachers and employers/bosses if theres a genuinely valid reason to do so and the general dynamic between different social positions is so relaxed to the point of it being fascinating. i think meeting the literal king of the country would for many people not warrant that big a change in behaviour other than obviously just being particularly nice.
as a result of this i think people have an easier time seeing each other as people rather than just as cogs of society, and being a person who struggles a lot with reading social cues its an enormous relief to so far in my professional life never had to worry a single time whether i should refer to someone as mr. or ms. or if i should be speaking in a particular register
That sounds really nice. As an American I try to live like that but it often is difficult in our culture
Back in 1967 Sweden had “Du-reformen”, a change to our language and popularize the second-person singular pronoun, “du”, as a universal form of addressing others in the Swedish language.
There is a wikipedia article anout it, and it is a bit interesting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du-reformen
Then we also have the law of “jante” which is deeply rooted in Swedish and Scandinavian culture:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante
The informal laws sound harsh, but boils down to, “you are not better than us”, and it applies to everyone.
Jante should be taken with a pinch of salt, the main point of jante is to not act like you are better than anyone else.
I watched Malcolm X starring Denzel Washington last night. He talks a lot about how a history of oppression creates a mental slavery in the victims, and that the mental servitude must be overcome to stand a chance at being truly an equal.
Maybe you should give it a watch and see if it speaks to you too. It didn’t inform me of how to fix all the problems in the world, but it definitely gave me a lot to think about when it comes to addressing the problems in yourself so you can be an example for the world.
I’m from the Netherlands so I can give you my perspective of what it’s like here. Cultures are complex and nuanced so I hope I’m able to explain it, and of course it is only my own view.
People here openly flaunt authority. But it isn’t really something you do, it’s something you are. It’s just natural and even expected of you. People also don’t tend to mince words and will often tell you what they think. It’s not rude, it’s a sign of respect to be forward.
Since I work internationally that can sometimes lead to interesting situations. In their culture it might be final when a boss says what should be done. For me it is completely natural to say it makes no sense and we should continue the meeting or reconvene later.
Politeness is not really much of a concept here. If you are being polite you’ll run into misunderstandings with people. They’ll full on simply not understand what you are talking about if you’re being indirect.
We have formal and casual pronouns. If you use the formal ones, almost everyone will stop you. It will make them uncomfortable. Even if the relation is professional.
Talking to say a dentist or cop feels like talking to family you don’t know so well. I once called the cops and she calmed me in a motherly way and then shared her business ideas for my business and told me she’d come visit with her entire family that weekend.
Bosses are an interesting topic. Everyone will pretend like everyone is equal, but of course the boss still secretly has control, and politics are a thing.
I’m not into Dutch politics but I know the prime minister rides a bicycle to work and I don’t think he has a security detail.
Anyway, that’s the general feeling I get, but of course people come in all shapes and sizes just like anywhere else.
Also I wanted to say that afaik the Indian classes were supercharged by the British. Perhaps because of their own class structure or perhaps to divide and conquer. That might be something interesting to look into.
This sounds wonderful
Wait until you hear the problems
American here. We mostly cuss at ours.
In all seriousness, we generally treat people with respect but that’s about it. It’s heavily varries by person.
You are correct. This is indeed a thing (though typically when the authority figure is right in front of one’s face), but I have noticed it a lot less in zoomers. On a similar note, the Indian Police Act and, rather, law enforcement as a whole needs to be reformed and worked heavily upon so the laws sincerely get executed and implemented (maybe then the people won’t be as intimidated).
rather, law enforcement as a whole needs to be reformed and worked heavily upon so the laws sincerely get executed and implemented (maybe then the people won’t be as intimidated).
it’s the culture, it won’t change even if it supposedly changed in the law.
It changes over extended time spans on the order of generations, and I might say it’s cyclical but it’s hard to see in a given lifetime.
In the early 1900s USA people where held at the absolute mercy of the wealthy, working long hours in wretched conditions for a pittance.
During and shortly after the WW1 & WW2 there was a massive push for unity and worker rights, the unions took shape and the working class took a large chunk of power away from the owners to better their standing.
In the 50s-70s there was a time of keeping pace with the neighbors, competitive but also concerned with the well-being of your fellow people.
Then from the 80s through early 2000s it switched and became a hyper individualistic ‘I got mine’ mindset.
In the last couple decades we’ve started to see a return to a push for collective good, but it has been held back a lot by a heavily divided population with half blaming the other half for the decay of society while those with means just sit back and watch the sniping from afar.
I’ve only been around for those last couple portions so a lot of my perspective is just my impressions from history books, but I guess the point I’d make is to look at the ebb and flow of things in historical context. People’s willingness to defer to power is both personal and couched in the willingness of society to support the individual.
We Americans tend to like authority but distrust authority figures we don’t already agree with.
Ain’t nobody laid on their death bed thinking they should have “respected” some clown more.
These “authority figures” would not piss on you if you were on fire. So why give them any satisfaction? Same thing with wealthy worship. Why do people do it? It ain’t like they will give you money lol
If you are in situation as such employment, jail house rules apply. Ain’t jack shit anyone can do about it. Best for them to know your name besides “that person can get X done well”
Um, we make fun of our authority figures but also believe the worst of them whatever they say about our national enemies (regarding Australia, national enemies include China, immigrants, the poor etc). There is more standard capitalist deference as well, you’re not going to slag someone who can fire you (to their face). And people are constantly ladder climbing as well, so there’s this sort of jockeying to have good banter while not creating enemies more powerful than you. I hate it. Its hard to navigate and people hide some real barbs behind “its a joke”.
idk how to change culture >.>
Um, we make fun of our authority figures but also believe the worst of them
How do you behave with them when you face to face with them? i.e., How do you communicate with them? Behind backdoors, things are normal here too (i.e., we don’t respect them, unless they are a charismatic politician)
Kinda depends. Cop on duty? Probably not. Politician or business owner? Unless they can directly affect you, annoying banter. If they can directly affect you, based on vibes.
Just another job.
Influenced by how it is handled in this country.
I’ve noticed the same thing from Indian colleagues. They rarely outwardly disagree and it’s very confusing to work that way. I don’t want a tiered workplace where some people are more equal than others. Let’s just speak plainly and politely, treat each other with respect, no matter where we’re from and what we look like.
I feel like the British colonial influence has been horrible for India and Africa in general.
-
Britishcolonialism bad. -
This goes far before the British. Before the British, there were the Mughals. This part of the indian culture is old and predates either of these two. The caste system has been around forever.
Edit: Bit of clarity.
The caste system has been around forever
Yeah, I guess we can trace a lot of this behavior to that. Good catch there. “Some people are more equal in others” even after the constitutional gave everyone “equal” rights.
Britishcolonialism bad.I don’t know! I see many of my rich friends desperately flocking to Britain and people in India being tribal as hell that I am beginning to think maybe British rules would have suited us better. i.e., I want more free-speech in this country, I want more freedoms and better legal system in this country. The legal system in UK is objectively better than ours in many ways, I won’t mind that tbch with you.
-
where some people are more equal than others
Ah, I see you’re a man of culture as well.
British colonial influence
I am not sure how different India would have been without that. But I would rate British Colonial Influence with 1 stars, I would not recommend it if you are non-White or American.
My culture isn’t really homogenous when it comes to an outlook on authority figures. Not that I can speak for anyone aside from myself. For me, it depends on the authority figure. Where do they derive their authority from?
Police I can get along with, but I’m not going to obey them just because they’re police. Police follow a mishmash of rules handed to them by governors whose rule is built on lies and theft or destruction, that is, their predecessors knocked out previous entities through war and revolution and they are a continuation of that. So any obedience I give to a governor is a gift. This is often contrasted with admins whose superiors are said to have crafted the entity they rule over with their own mind and hands and without deception, and I follow them unconditionally unless jurisdiction becomes an issue.
There’s a book called culture map, you should take a peek.
Most people prefer videos, or I’d have posted a link to a blog, I’m too lazy for both
thank you!
As an American authority is hated and enforced. Our culture is highly competitive and authority focuses aren’t above it.
